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 Maoists hold massive Nepal rally

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Posted on 06-02-06 9:19 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Maoists hold massive Nepal rally

At least 200,000 people have taken part in a Maoist rally in the Nepalese capital, Kathmandu - the first there by the rebels for three years.
Streets were hung with banners bearing communist slogans and posters of the Maoist leader, Prachanda.

King Gyanendra ended 14 months of absolute rule in April after weeks of pro-democracy protests.

The new multi-party government has been holding talks with the Maoists aimed at ending the 10-year insurgency.

The Maoists are demanding the dissolution of the government and elections to a new constituent assembly.

The BBC's Charles Haviland in Kathmandu says Friday's rally was huge, with people crushed against fences and climbing walls for a better view.
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Source - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5039788.stm
 
Posted on 06-07-06 9:35 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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True,
we are not very far from the point that maoist rule in Nepal.If SPA keeps doing whatever maoist says then that will be the case.
First of All ,There should be no CA if it is not going to be fair.
If maoist doesn't lay there arms before CA they won't lay there arms even after CA.
Which real communist believed in Democractic rupublic so why would they be any exception.


If UML supports maoist but then they diagree later then it is obviously end of UML.

NC should be clear with thier stand as you said and should atleast try to work with UML against MAO .
Otherwise it is obvious that we will be entering another phase of chaos and autocratic regime.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 2:49 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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ImI,

I understand some of your concerns. However, I also notice that you are making ASSUMPTIONS and wishing others to act on those ASSUMPTIONS.

Assumptions are assumptions no matter how convincing they look to you.

At this time, what Nepali people is looking for is TRUTH, not ASSUMPTIONS. And truth comes from TESTING.

Nepali people seems ready to test Maoists- their words, roadmap and commitments.

I think the following are the steps where Maoists shall be tested. It is also loosely a political roadmap agreed by or acceptable to Maoists for next 1-2 years.

1. Ideological commitment to "democratic republic" (done)
2. Practical commitment to political process (CA) rather than armed revolution (done)
3. Formal understanding with SPA (done)
4. Ceasefire (done)
5. Partnership in the movement (done)
6. Partnership in the interim government (due)
7. "Sequestering" of weapons during the election of CA (commitment)
8. Participation the election of CA (sure thing)
9. Constitution drafting:
a. Drafting of republican constitution ACCORDING to the mandate of the election (commitment)
b. Drafting of monarchical constitution ACCORDING to the mandate of the election (non-commitment)
c. Drafting of monarchical constitution AGAINST the mandate of the election (opposition)
10. Disarmament and management of Militia (commitment and sure thing in case of 9a, uncertain in case of 9b and unlikely in case of 9c )

After the disarmament:
11. Election of Parliament/Head of gov (commitment to participate)
12. New government as per the result
13. Truth commission (popular demand)
14. Actions against all (old government, RNA, Maoists) found guilty (by popular pressure)
14. Full fledged, vibrant and of course messy democracy

What one can draw from the above is that, if we do not have any problem with "democratic republic", then there is nothing to be nervous about the Maoists. The path to their domestication and a stable democracy is straight forward.

Only one thing that might make it unworkable is if the MAJORITY of Nepali people voted for MONARCHY (pro-monarchy candidates to be exact) in the election of CA. But, is it likely ? I don't think so.

So, all that is left is to move and move faster to pass through all these steps which will test Maoists and also other political parties and we the people too.

Nepe
 
Posted on 06-08-06 3:03 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Ok Nepe, I didnot understand your non commitment part. How can you test the non commitment part?If they are not committed now it is sure and certain that they are not going to agree.

Then lets assume that there is fair election and Monarchs win so according to you they are going back to jungle .Then why did they even come out.

Testing during the time of crisis and with intimidation is what i do not believe in.And i think you don't either.this should be understood by nepalese people.

the road map layout is fine .Without disarment being the first few steps rather than last steps would be highly beneficial towards maoist commitment to peace.This will also insure less intimidation.

Then there is point you mentioned action against . what action against and to whom?for their eyes Girija and Sher bahadur should be one of the most hated person. So do you mean to say they are going to act against them?

there was something "code of conduct" which was suppose to be done.how committed are maoist on that?If they cannot abide by simple as that. How can nepalese people give them chance.I don't see any point.This is my opinion .I think test can be very costly for nepalese people.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 3:13 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Npepe Whats this done part of your sentence ? R u tallin me they have already disarmed ? huh ! Then who the fug is robbing all those banks ? Man you live in a dream world. WAKE UP MAPAI NEPE and smell that coffee. DO NOT BE A CHAMELEON.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 5:32 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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ImI,

You picked two really crucial points.

1. The chances of Maoists not accepting the result of CA's election if it went in favor of monarchy.

Before worrying, let's make a realistic speculation about the election.

Since republic/monarchy is the major issue, it's certain that the election is going to take a form of a referendum on this issue. Candidates will declare their position regarding republic/monarchy (and other things) and the voters vote accordingly.

So our feared scenario is when 51% of the candidates (or total votes) are pro-monarchy. What probability does it has ?

If pro-republic candidates (or votes) exceeds 50%, that's it. Republic wins.

So the thing to consider is this. Granted the current atmosphere continues until the election.

Chances of pro-republic votes exceeding 50 percent = 99.99 %
Chances of pro-monarchy votes exceeding 50 percent = 00.01 %

So, I do not see any reason to worry that a situation might come for Maoists to go back to jungle.


2. Justice to war crimes:

We are talking about truth commission/war tribunal for the time when Maoists will have been disarmed. So, there is no point fearing that Maoists might not co-operate with it. They will be forced, by the law, by victims and by popular opinions to co-operate.

It is important to note that Maoists are not lonely abusers. State security forces and whoever commanded them have also done that. So, Maoists will not have to feel shame all by themselves. Our courts will see abusers from both sides. This should make Maoists feel more comfortable to co-operate.

Another point, what happens to the crimes other than abuse to human subjects, like destruction of national properties during the war ?

This issue is probably not for the court of law. This is probably for the court of people (election). And I guess, we will have to reconcile with whatever verdict the people give. Because people's verdict is supreme. We can not complain that.

So this is it. If we think realistically and pragmatically, there is nothing to worry about.

Nepe
 
Posted on 06-08-06 5:52 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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i think you point that there would be pro - republic majority being 99.99% is completely wrong.How do you analyze that just because 200-300 k people come out on the streets.I am not taking favor of monarch but your guessestimation is very highly unlikely.Most of nepalese people are confused and this is advantage to monarchs .As well as the nature of maoist is another advantage to monach.
Since the guessetimation is not in proper place the chances are 50-50.The later the CA the better for King.The more maoist break law the more advantage to king.

Also CA cannot be refreendum.CA is not true democractic process.It is representative style where the voice of majority can be negelected as seen in BUSH and ALGORE case.
So , i do not completely support the idea of CA as it is not refrendum(not true democracy)
But alternative are hard to implement .i agree with that.

Also the war crime . When maoist and if maoist comes to the power .If there bad intentions are fullfilled then it is the begining of revenge politics.I doubt they would acknowldege any wrong doing on their part.They have not admitted till now .will they ever admit when they are wining?

There is no point going to CA unless and atleast They disarm
which is vey highly unlikely.If we go without disarming them they will never agree.No international pressure or national pressure can convince them .We have seen that in past.

Commies are very good with words but hardly ever they keep their words.

Peace in Nepal was only during panchayat era (at least it seemed like , agreed was dominated so badly but atleast we didn't had this)Now no matter maoist remains in mainstream of goes back to jungle i hardly doubts these dogs are not going to fight for the bone.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 7:46 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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ImI,

May be I should have put it this way:

Chances for 100% pro-republic votes = 0%
Chances for 90% pro-republic votes = 30%
Chances for 80% pro-republic votes = 50%
Chances for 70% pro-republic votes = 70%
Chances for 60% pro-republic votes = 90%
Chances for 51% pro-republic votes = 99%

Anyway, I am this confident because as I see monarchy is already dead and I do not think people wants to revive it that too at the cost of returning the Maoists to the jungle.

Jana-andolan's mandate is yes to Maoist's entry to democratic politics along with other political parties at the cost of monarchy's ousting. For next 2 years, the fever of Jana-andolan is to stay with the people. Until then monarchy has no chance to revive, IMHO.

*** *** ***

As for Truth Commission/ War Tribunal, it is not about admission by the abusers, it's about complaints by the victims and investigation by an all powerful body. So we got to trust it. As you said, there is no better alternative than this.

On other points, I think, as I said, it's not time for making fearful assumptions and staying in one place. It's time for moving ahead and encountering the moments of truth and reconciling with it and moving on. I think Nepali people know that and are ready.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 8:50 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Nepe - I find your perspectives very interesting. Personally, I think it's hard to accurately estimate which way the CA elections will go but I admire your guts for stepping up and making a prediction.

I think a couple of things are key in deciding the outcome of the CA elections:

(1) If the NC decides to go for a republic, then the game is over. End of story. The republicans will get a cake walk because all three major political forces will be on the same side.

(2)If the NC decides to support constitutional monarchy (or 'ceremonial monarchy' as they'd probably call it) or worse stay nuetral then the outcome could go either way.

As much as I found your characterization of NC and GPK's stands on the monarchy interesting, I honestly am not convinced that either of them are monarchists at heart. The monarchy has always been the biggest enemy of the Congress and vice-versa. Both would, deep down inside, be glad to see the other eliminated.

I personally think GPK and the NC don't have very many options vis-a-vis the monarchy at this time. They can at best stay "neutral" on the subject. It will be hard for them to come out in favor of any form of Monarchy. But perhaps they will push for a ballot measure to accompany the CA elections that asks voters whether the CA should adopt a monarchial or republican setup. The NC can then go with whatever setup people choose. I would like to see the party come out swinging unequivocally in favor of a republic but I have my doubts about whether they will actually do such a thing.

One another note, Prachanda is the man of the hour without a doubt. And he sure seems to be enjoying all the attention! :)
 
Posted on 06-08-06 9:12 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Nepe,
I think your estimation now is somewhat correct if NC does decide to go against Monarch.As the stance is not clear .It is hard to say at this point.It also depends on how the king is going to act in coming days.

King has literally no power at this point of time.but it would be interesting to see how the country is going to be ran in republic set up.I would have loved to see more violent janadolan than this cause this was not to the level that party and people will never forget.We all know nepali people easily forget everything.That is why i am saying the more delay in CA the better for the king.King did a big blunder , if i were king i wouldn't have done that .then again ganye is known stupid .

It will also be interesting to see the international forces effects in Nepalese future politics.

Well, if nepalese janta are really ready to test maoist ,then we will have to wait and see the end result.I just hope that in the hope of peace we might not lose freedom.I keep my finger cross.

good points raised by orion and Nepe thanks for your anaylsis.
 
Posted on 06-09-06 3:56 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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>Personally, I think it's hard to accurately estimate which way
>the CA elections will go but I admire your guts for stepping up
>and making a prediction.

Orion, I was, as they say, "hazarding" my guess. Since I am not claiming accuracy, it was easy.

Some additional guesswork regarding GP and NC's profile.

1. I think, traditionally, NC's leadership and all prominent members were monarchist at heart and out. It started to change only after King's takeover in 2002. Now most members are already pro-republic at heart. Koirala, his kins and others close to him are left (it is interesting to note that Sujata too had a pro-republic fever right after her "escape" from the country after Feb 1 and before returning home).

In the last convention of NC, although GP Koirala was elected the president against Narahari Acharya, it was clear that the vote was for personality than for ideology. In fact, it was reported that apart from Sailaja Acharya and few others, there was not a single person who was not pro-republic. The convention was that dramatic. Even earlier than that, there were indication of NC cadre's shift towards pro-republic position. A meeting of NC's district presidents had declared something to that effect. If you go to the student wing of NC, it does not require any introduction.

So, pro-monarchy position of NC is actually surviving on GP Koirala's strong desire and unrivaled influence alone. (I will come to the theory on GP Koirala's pro-monarchy position shortly)

So, if NC is to go to CA with slogan of "ceremonial monarchy", it will be under the enforcement by GP Koirala. So, If liberty is granted to the candidates, I bet 100% of them will declare their allegiance to republic. Two reasons. One, as I said, the pool from which they will come is already pro-republic. Second, the atmosphere is such that if you say no to republic you are not going to get votes. I don't think NC candidates would go for risking their election when all they need to avoid that is to say three words "I support republic", in just one mass-meeting when GP Koirala is not around.

Once a candidate utters these three words, he will be counted as a pro-republic candidate by now an important power called "civil society" and most importantly by the Maoists. Civil society and the Maoists will never allow that candidate to "deceive" during the drafting of the constitution. (This is one of the reasons why Maoists are not ready to lay down their arms before the election and "civil society" is supporting the Maoist in that.)

So, I think GP Koirala will have very hard time, if not impossible, to able to send the candidates with pro-monarchy or republic-neutral election manifesto. Knowing Koirala's stubbornness, GP Koirala will probably be looking helplessly at his candidates declaring their allegiance to republic themselves during the election.

And all "civil society" and the Maoists will need to insist on republic constitution later is 51% of total candidates who express their allegiance to republic on any one single occasion just to be on the record.

Once they can show that 51% of the candidates have expressed their allegiance to republic during election, they will in no way allow a monarchical constitution to come out. In other words, the fate of the constitution will be sealed by the time the last candidate's result is declared. In other words, there will be no room for GP Koirala or any pro-monarchy power to manipulate the constitution drafting sessions to introduce monarchy if it does not win. As far as monarchy/republic issue is concerned, CA is going to be "winner takes all" and not "inclusive" one to accommodate minority vote.

So, if these assumptions of mine are not way off realism, then republic definitely is going to "win".

2. Now on GP Koirala. It is clear that GP Koirala who held and is holding on to monarchy even when a small pretending that he is not should benefit his party is doing it for some special reason. His pride to keep the identity and legacy of Koirala family and, to some extent, the party too, does appear as one such special reason. Another reason I have speculated is that GP Koirala looks at Nepal from his own eyes. I mean, he sees it not more than his own reflection- a reflection of a man with no degree, average IQ, no reading, no idea about modern ideas and technology, no power to inspire people, no oratory skill, surviving by pure stubbornness and like that. This reflection obviously can not be self-confident enough to "Desh Chalaunu" single handedly. He needs somebody very close but behind the curtain of course, for help you never know when you might need and for sharing some blame if thing did not go very well and so on. Who else than a constitutional King could be that person to the thinking of a person of GP Koirala's intellect ?

So a constitutional king is also a "partner of convenience" to GP Koirala and the future leaders Koirala dreams for Nepal.

This dream, however, has already started to shatter and the tide is so strong GP Koirala will have to let it go sometime before CA sits to draft the constitution.

Even if GP Koirala, the unrivaled leader of open politics in Nepal, managed to pull his helpers and supporters together, an unusual rival has arrived. Prachanda. This man has already started to claim his territory, prachanda tarikale, I should say.

Looking at the impressive style of Prachanda in his KTV interview, I do not think GP Koirala will manage to sell "ceremonial monarchy" to Nepali customers against Prachanda's "democratic republic".

"Tapai_haru Ganatantra_ma aaunus, haami bahudal_ma aayoun". Prachanda is already dragging monarchist GP Koirala around the ring.


Nepe
 
Posted on 06-09-06 5:03 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Nepe ,
One thing that i don't like about civil society members are they are bias.They are heavly tilted towards republic and they do not really represent common people.
With people like Padma ratna former maoist as civil society leader.How can this be a fair game?
About Prachanda- this guy still not ready to come to peace.He has no respect for anybody.He talks Straight but talking straight and having no decency to PM is not what nepali people would like to hear.He shows how jungle he is.This is not how the country can be run .Nepali people should and would fear of this guys.Again , some where i heard he is selling big dreams like making nepal - singapore .person who talks this big without base is certainly not trusted by nepalese people.As people know better.But uneducated and easily expolitable public could be exploited.


Your analysis are good .May be that could happen.
 



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